Sometimes on Tribe I'm goofing off, sometimes serious, and really enjoy what i read as I move around the site. I joined this tribe because I'm a builder, (not a contractor), a lead carpenter and project manager.
I've just finished some very cool work for a Buddhist community in Seattle. In two rounds of construction I helped them turn an old Christian church into a Buddhist Temple. I built the altar and set the Buddha and other deities in place with a combination of good ol boys and monks.
I built the tori gate out front to accurate dimensions although scaled down to fit the space, and put in a Tibetan and English library.
In round two I created residences for the 17 Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje. I'm just putting the final touches on it now.
That said, I'm in the early stages of contemplation for building a church from scratch for another community. I'd like to post here from time to time because the opportunity in this one is to have the design follow the ideals of sacred geometry and so sacred architecture. I'll need to work with the iconography and important symbolism of the church, while incorporating it into the design through the art of the sacred.
Any feedback will be appreciated, and your thoughts and ideas will be given respect and consideration. A broader community holds more vision than an individual, and just as I reach out to books to find what I need, I'll also reach out to the community.
On Tribe sometimes I'm a dork and at other's an aspiring poet.
On this thread I'm the me I am at work, a really competent and considerate person who can bring a communities vision into the world.
This project is the chance I always dreamed of as a kid, to be a part of building a cathedral, or in this case, a star shaped church.
Please know this is important to me and feel free to bust jokes if it's called for, but also please remember that at the heart of it, for me, this is a sacred adventure. I'm open to all the help or advise you may feel interested in giving.
Six is the number, and the roof from above will be a hexagon star. The floor an amazing mandala expressed in Terrazzo, mosaic flooring or paving composed of chips of broken stone, usually marble, and cement, polished when in place. The shape, the roof and the foundation, being dreamed up as we speak.
A software program for sacred geometry would be useful.
Cheers...
I've just finished some very cool work for a Buddhist community in Seattle. In two rounds of construction I helped them turn an old Christian church into a Buddhist Temple. I built the altar and set the Buddha and other deities in place with a combination of good ol boys and monks.
I built the tori gate out front to accurate dimensions although scaled down to fit the space, and put in a Tibetan and English library.
In round two I created residences for the 17 Karmapa, Ogyen Trinley Dorje. I'm just putting the final touches on it now.
That said, I'm in the early stages of contemplation for building a church from scratch for another community. I'd like to post here from time to time because the opportunity in this one is to have the design follow the ideals of sacred geometry and so sacred architecture. I'll need to work with the iconography and important symbolism of the church, while incorporating it into the design through the art of the sacred.
Any feedback will be appreciated, and your thoughts and ideas will be given respect and consideration. A broader community holds more vision than an individual, and just as I reach out to books to find what I need, I'll also reach out to the community.
On Tribe sometimes I'm a dork and at other's an aspiring poet.
On this thread I'm the me I am at work, a really competent and considerate person who can bring a communities vision into the world.
This project is the chance I always dreamed of as a kid, to be a part of building a cathedral, or in this case, a star shaped church.
Please know this is important to me and feel free to bust jokes if it's called for, but also please remember that at the heart of it, for me, this is a sacred adventure. I'm open to all the help or advise you may feel interested in giving.
Six is the number, and the roof from above will be a hexagon star. The floor an amazing mandala expressed in Terrazzo, mosaic flooring or paving composed of chips of broken stone, usually marble, and cement, polished when in place. The shape, the roof and the foundation, being dreamed up as we speak.
A software program for sacred geometry would be useful.
Cheers...
posted by:
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Seattle
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Re: The hexagram...
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 10:27 PMSounds promising CG.
Pleases study in depth if possible the work of the architect Louis Kahn (if you haven't already).
He was a master (IMHO) at creating Sacred space.
My father was a master sculptor who began his career making ecclesiastical art pieces(for all denominations).
I carry on that tradition as well as design and fabricate site specific decorative arts objects such as gates ,gazebos,fountains,furniture etc.
If I can be of service,don't hesitate.
Perhaps when you have something visual (plans,blueprints etc.) you might share for feedback...
You have a great opportunity to express your skill and art,but keep in mind "less is more" when creating a space for spiritual practice and regarding the numinous... -
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Re: The hexagram...
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 11:48 PMThanks Steven,
I don't have any experience building with sacred geometry as the basis, but I've had the privilege to work in the spiritual community. I'm handling small projects for groups that want someone to help them realize they're vision while being considerate and conscious of their culture and style of worship.
I'll check out the author you suggested.
I've always had an interest in beauty and beautiful proportions. I followed that to sacred geometry and saw that much of what I was attracted to was based on certain ideas and principles. My level of expertise in it is really none at all, but my intuition and confidence tell me it's possible to incorporate these ideals on behalf of a community that's wanting to express themselves with dignity and beauty through the little church they build. I can see how beautiful buildings have been realized working with these principles, and I want something beautiful for this congregation. Something that represents the dignity and expansiveness of their spiritual practice.
Architects and Engineers are responsible for designing some amazing buildings. Builders run the crews who do the work, and carpenters and others actually build it. I'm just a solid carpenter, foundation to finish on residential and small commercial jobs. I'm not accustomed to being on the more visionary side of the process, but this opportunity all ready has a basic design that's been drawn by some civil engineers.
My question is this, just because it's got a shape that's listed in the process of geometry from one to ten, the hexagram star, does that by itself make it sacred? Is it just correct proportions that do that or is their something more? A starfish may look elegant in the water, but what's it going to look like as a roof line? I think I need to make a model and lay on the floor looking at it.
It sounds like you come from an artistic culture and family and that your somewhat grounded in this work. Have a look please at the basic frame plan and tell me what you think. I'll send it in after this. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 12:13 AMThat's a good question ,
and in my most humble opinion I do not think BY ITSELF a hexagram star denotes anything necessarily Sacred.
It's more what goes on beneath the roofline that will designate that. Having said that ,this shape does point in a certain direction.
If it were me in your shoes ,I would research everything I could get my hands on about this shape (and there's tons). Is this a Jewish congregation,Tibetan Buddhism? This shape is significant to both of these esteemed religions. Needless to say the ambiance you wish to create inside is of paramount importance. Ambiance can of course be affected in many ways ,but at least initially orientation should be considered,and in relation to orientation ,lighting should be considered. Where and how many windows will there be. The skylight at the center of the cap is a nice touch. I should think a sculptural piece suspended from that light source employing a reflective matrix could go a long way to affecting ambiance. This is just me brainstorming.
The religion and its stories might have a significant contribution to the concept of sculpting the space for certain effects as well... -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 6:21 AMI have this same perception of the wavering edge between the sacred nature of a shape and the simple math that regards not the meaning...
This is excite CG!
I humbly ask you to review my images on my profile and notice one or two where I have been exploring the Hexagon, and it's relationship to a Temple.
My dream is to build a Temple of Sound.
Resonant Assembly
If you are doing this as well, I consider you and the assembly part of my future brethren.
My personal inspiration comes from the idea of turning a cube so that 3 corners are on the "ground" and the peak of one corner is in the air.
When this happens, the plan is an isometric triangle, or, one face of a tetrahedron.
Simply take a cube, and connect diagonals. then remove corners, and you have a tetrahedron.
Here is a 3D animation I made of this: www.youtube.com/v/6YyXfje_UCc&hl=en
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:36 AMOK, ........ excellent.
Thank you for responding. I'll follow what you said, "and It's more what goes on beneath the roof line that will designate that". with these thoughts...
I completely agree about the living you do inside being what also designates the space as sacred. That part they've got covered. Their icons and symbols will need to be placed into the overall elements with some care and with geometric harmony, and yes the ambiance of light following the living use of the interior. This is also why I feel the floor design will be so important. The terrazzo is my idea because of it's ability to express complexity and it's firmness and staying power over time. Radiant heat may make it more comforting.
For me personally, it's respectful and conscious handling of the materials and my motion and mindset as I work that brings a invisible something to the finished space. As a sculptor I'm sure your aware of that feeling of flow and sedate momentum that happens when your working. You know how when your calm inside the tools describe your intentions without having to force them and the pieces come into being with less effort, as if they're satisfied with what you desire to express. If I'm all wound up or stressed I can still achieve the shape I'm after, but it's arising from a sort of demand, and grudgingly comes into being. What I love about sculptors is the hand tools, their hands and the tools that extend their vision into the visible. As a carpenter, when I abandon my hands in favor of more and more powerful tools, pretty soon I'm just an operator, sitting in a cage and pushing huge quantities with diesel and steel. It can lead in the end to a beautiful shape, but theirs nothing of me, my care and intention, my heart and sweat and blood in it.
If I'm coming at this with awe and grace, touching it, carving and fitting it with my hands in rhythm with my heartbeat then.........
Ahh......... something beautiful and nearly sacred can appear.... -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 10:08 AMThere's no substitute for the years of experience you possess.
You could not describe the process with such authority without it.
Your intention is pure and you are"relaxed in the posture"as the Yogis would say.
Through SYMPATHETIC MAGIC you are drawing to you what you need to accomplish the task before you.
Me,Shadoan,and others will materialize out of the woodwork as you need us.
The floor sounds pregnant with possibilities...and radiant heating is indeed a plus for such an environment...
Shadoan's comments bring up the subject of acoustics ,another possible element to explore for creating Sacred Space...
Are you familiar with my Sacred Geometry Calipers? That is a tool which might help your design process. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 4:16 PMI think it was Shadoan's profile where I saw some nice design tools that seemed appropriate. Maybe what your describing, and yes I'd like to become familiar with your Calipers. Thank you.
The altar...
The altar will be in the center with the people gathered around it in a circular fashion several rows deep...
The sculptural piece beneath the central skylight..... fabulous idea, ..........related to the altar below....... it's elevation will be important..
Acoustics...... That would need someone familiar with it who could have time to consider it during design...what's important...?
Widows... Light and ambiance....inspiration.. rich in metaphoric possibilities... shape of the windows? height and width of...? glass types..
Egress.... movement..... flow through the space...size and scale of openings...?
Other sacred spaces at the inside walls....... the model will show me more about the shapes and possibilities...
Pathways of movement inside....... a natural focus toward the altar, ....places to rest in contemplation...... to relax for children and caretakers...
Color........ texture...... fabrics.....
finish surfaces...... candelabra...... statuary.....
Open space.................. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 8:49 PMCalipers are on page 7 of this tribe's photo album.
A small selection of my candelabra:
ou8nrtist2.deviantart.com/galle...elabra -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:59 PMnice knobs... :)
All the work is beautiful and I like the idea of the little winch for the hanging candelabra. The large sculpture are stunning. As a tradesman I love all the hours see in it. Your shop is great. You must have a really interesting pile of cut offs and odd parts.
It's funny what catches my eye as I moved about your site. I'm a big fan of custom pieces for things we touch everyday. Art that you have permission to use. Those faucet handles were outrageous.
Hat's off to ya Stephen... -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 2, 2008 - 10:14 PMMy books started arriving today and I find a section on the golden mean calipers in Michael Schneider's book, A Beginners Guide to Constructing th Universe.
Now were cookin with grease.
You or someone here recommended a book by gorsky? Deska? Aieee I can't recall the name. I'll search the posts.
Any book recommendations are welcome. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 12:01 AMYou may be thinking of "The Power of Limits" by Gyorgy Doczi. Much of what you seek to integrate in structure for building is in this volume.
Also ,I have personally found great traction in Theodor Schwenk's book,"Sensitive Chaos".He was a friend and associate of Rudolf Steiner.
This book concerns patterns of flowing forms in air and water.
On page 85 is a small sketch that is the inspiration behind my work in progress "The Plane at Infinity":
people.tribe.net/stephenfi...e2b84d7de8
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 6:41 AMwww.earthship.net/modules.php
earthship rocks! or... muds!!!
Stephen, the calipers you made, are the marks on them a way of exploring different geometry?
I don't know fully but, couldn't you make a large set of these to actually build a building? -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:44 AMShadoan,
Yes,a larger set could be made definitely,but this set is already larger than most available (15.5 inches).
It is very serviceable for those involved in object design (me) and as a drafting tool for blueprints etc.(architects and builders).
The ornamentation,which is just aesthetic, was done by a master acid etch artist (by hand),and the pattern is from a 5th cent BC CELTIC bronze scabbard from the site of La Tene(Switzerland)owned by the British Museum. This style is my favorite of the Early Celtic (or La Tene) Period leading up to the birth of Christ. It is the set I use. I also offer an UNORNAMENTED set of the same size in stainless steel,for artists craftsmen and carpenters. It is the one they can carry in their toolbox for on-site calculations,with out the fear that the tool might rust...
An unornamented set is $150.oo now and an acid etched set in (mild steel)is $500.oo
These devices are laser cut so fairly accurate. I'm still trying to find better fasteners though.
As usual,I made these as a tool for myself but accomplished a small production run and offer them for sale to try and pay for the cost of exploring the design and commercial fabrication. I did this about 10 years ago.There are now other perfectly suitable calipers on the market for far less,probably not made a stoutly as mine however. My idea was,(as in all things I make),that it might be an heirloom that would be passed down for at least several generations... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 7:13 PMHey Stephen,
Thank you again for all your encouragement these last few days.
I'd love to own a pair of your hand crafted Calipers. I could break them in as a design tool for this little church. It's not a hundred percent go right now, but by the time I show a model to some folks, I think it'll get the green light. I'm going to surprise a large gathering later this month with a scale model. I've got between now and the 23rd to get it done. I'll build it here in my little shop. Maybe just the frame and a basic mandala to set it on. I'm playing with the idea of having it in pieces to assemble, this way we can "build" the church together, they can look at drawings and touch and erect the model. More work for me, but more fun for them.
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 10:46 PM -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:27 AMWhat is going on with this place (the videos' place , not tribe).?>
I have seen this trailer 800 times, and can't figure out where/what it is about... a movie? a game?
it reminds me of a tribe version of Ghost in The Shell Interfaces. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 11:41 AMShadoan,
It has the word TEASER right in the title,and thus it is...
But as the last image fades there is a website illuminated on the screen briefly.
So here's your answer...
illuminated.com/index02.html
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 6:58 PMEarthships Rock... I agree. Cool site.
I've been a little hectic wrapping my last project up. A few things on the punch list and I'll be moving on.
The guy I built residences for is pretty cool. www.kagyuoffice.org/
and the community who's vision I helped bring about also, www.nalandawest.org/index.htm
The brick building in the upper right hand corner of that page is the one I've been transforming slowly during a couple of phases into a Buddhist temple.
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 5:46 PMLouis Khan knew virtually nothing about sacred geometry.
He intuited the inter-relationships that emerged through platonic shapes.
He spoke of the silent spaces that informed his silent places.
His work is still, like Nature, but achieved this through contrast and not harmony. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 6:09 PMHave you tried 3d studio max? Its a long process to learn it. There is also this sculpting program, I need to get ahold of the name to give you the right one. You can sculpt Anything. I also ran into a site where these people make these .
www.mathbun.com/v/sculptur...+3.jpg.html
I think they type in there somewhere the programs they use or how they make them. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 6:10 PM -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 23, 2008 - 9:23 PMJ'uha,
I was intrigued by your comments in regards to Louis Kahn.
My reason for mentioning him to CG was because he was a master at creating sacred space (as compared to Sacred Geometry).
But your statement that "He intuited the inter-relationships that emerged through platonic shapes ",seems at least to beg the question that he must have known SOMETHING of Sacred Geometry.
Perhaps you knew him personally and so I differ to you on this but must ask ;How are you so convinced?
There are many authors and academicians who state rather convincingly that he was at least aware of the basic concepts...
books.google.com/books
and in my own experience I found the interior spaces he designed to be REMARKABLY harmonious.
With respect;
Stephen -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 9:06 PMStephen your reference includes the line, "...infuse a building with spirituality." The language seems uncertain at best.
Sacred Geo does not mean church buildings or temples on platforms that differentiate the sacred and the profane. That's a metaphor for kings who proclaimed themselves to be gods and looked down upon their obedient subjects.
Sacred pragmatically means non divided which is accomplished by using the language of nature directly rather than pure shapes alone.
Sacred also involves tapping into the living energy of the Earth, therefore placement upon the Earth is critical in relation to astral alignments. That's mostly where the energy comes from.
Khan and his contemporaries were revolutionizing architecture by redefining space with the help of advanced structural dynamics including wider spans and the disconnection of walls from roofs as with the work of LeCorbusier.
Sacred Geometry though was considered mysticism by this empirical and intellectual lot and mostly was discarded. Khan discussed intangibles though was making metaphors despite what the author has stated.
Certain geometries activate when in alignment with stellar and Earth energies. The meridians of the body are similar to the Meridians on the Earth as well the ancient buildings which were 'sacred' formed a network and did not operate in isolation. The Modern ego would not tolerate sharing turf with their colleagues whom were both friends and competitors. The buildings and the designers were posturing objects uniterested in peripheral relationships.
I would give the nod to Frank Lloyd Wright who did work with an Asian proportioning system in his residential projects though did not have any astrological prowess as far as I know. LeCorbusier was aware of the Golden Section (Phi) but did not go too far with this.
I cannot say that I understand the difference between sacred space and sacred geometry given my understanding. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sat, May 24, 2008 - 10:29 PMJ'uha,
Much of what you speak I am in accord with.
But Language itself is uncertain at best.
My original reference to Khan was not in regards to his use or understanding of Sacred Geometry which is after all an artifice,like all science.
What I meant was that his spaces invoked the Numinous.
Maybe as you say, it was his technical innovations that that caused this. I don't know (and I would speculate ) that he himself did not know.
But what ever the case there is something "special" about his designs.
My belief is that at the final moment of decision on the execution of his designs he was guided by his intuition (as all true artists are) and surrendered all to INTENTION.
The proof is in the pudding .Or as can be felt in a most palpable way,his spatial environments lend themselves nicely to the perception of a power greater than ourselves.
He was a flawed man ,in conflict with himself,not as arrogant as Wright perhaps but complicated ,as all men are (and as his secret histories now reveal),but there is a kernel ,a seed,a gem if you will, of something monumental in his designs...
Again I would reiterate that the difference between a building holding sacred space and Sacred Geometry is what occurs beneath the roof...
Are you a professional architect?
You speak with such authority but one gleans little from your profile.
I appreciate the interaction and your views... -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 5:24 AMI see you are a sculptor, a prolific sculptor. Me, I am a sculptor of ideas.
I dislike titles as this assumes a starting point that may not be appropriate.
The BIO page is not my friend for this reason.
I type and retype until the sculpture feels just right.
I like Khan a great deal but his buildings feel like empty stadiums.
Pure, serene shapes that are contemplative but do not accommodate function too well.
He did not receive the fame one would expect because of his subjectivity.
His students loved him dearly.
The man and his buildings could not be categorized. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 7:05 AMKahn (imho) knew sacred geometry. Contemporary and superior to many wise souls, he knew the easy way out... But I think it can be proved he took one based on the incredibly difficult problem faced when given a site, a program, and weather, sun, stars, solstices etc.
The Salk Center says it all. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imag...itute1.jpg
By the way, many crystals are Platonic ideal solids, which you say are divided... and thus not sacred.
The term divided is a contentious one, Divine, Devil, Divisive, Devise, Divination, Diabolic...
But, it's what stems cells do. Which are nearly Platonic Solids... Simulacrum in the flesh. -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 7:47 AMInteresting fact about Kahn:
"Louis I. Kahn did not find his distinctive architectural style until he was in his fifties. Initially working in a fairly orthodox version of the International Style, a stay at the American Academy in Rome in the early 1950s marked a turning point in Kahn's career. The back-to-the-basics approach he adopted after visiting the ruins of ancient buildings in Italy, Greece and Egypt helped him to develop his own style of architecture influenced by earlier modern movements but not limited by their sometimes dogmatic ideologies."
[From Wikipedia entry on Louis I. Kahn]
What was it he found in those ruins of ancient buildings? -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 8:01 AM -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 9:40 AM -
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 11:29 AMShadoan,
that little piece speaking in first person as if you were a building was brilliant...
J'uha,
I too have been hampered with peoples preconceived ideas because of labels.
My hat's off to you as you've found a way round it...
In regards to Khan,I meant to say "complicated,as all men touched by brilliance are".
And Od your quote that :
"The man and his buildings could not be categorized" speaks volumes...
I myself have been transformed by those ancient ruins.
Most specifically the Palace of Knossos on Crete and Stonehenge.
J'uha brought up the use of specific alignments(astral and otherwise) as regards site orientations and I think both these mentioned are good examples.
I look forward to Orpheus taking these themes and making some wacky visuals...
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Re: The hexagram...
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 12:40 AMVery cool Od.
The woodwork is beautiful and the way the light is managed by the interior partitions is interesting.
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Re: The hexagram...
Wed, June 25, 2008 - 2:17 PMHis career shift came after designing a little beach pavilion where he noted that building elements could serve two purposes. In the case of the pavilion, the columns were also small rooms. He later designed a university library where this idea came through more clearly and the spaces were layered from the outside in.
Beyond this he noted that his concepts were best rediscovered in ancient buildings and thus began to emulate ancient monoliths but he did not glean the exceptional 'sonic' order of these buildings preferring rather to transform the ancient buildings into Modern conceptions, that is, buildings that appear to be something but in fact do not engender what they reference. The Greeks started this mindset and the Romans, from which the Western World is modeled, finished it off and the era of overt empiricism began.
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 30, 2008 - 5:58 PMMitosis is self replication, not divisiveness.
That's Modern science and they eye talking.
Kahn knew Platonic not Sacred Geometry.
Did I say divided?
I am open to new info, but as far as I know this is valid.
Did he orient to the solstice at Salk?
I have been there and noted only the serenity of megalithic order.
I was not there at the solstice.
Your link shows the tail end of the center axis. Behind this are ragged bushes.
I dislike conversations of this nature. Semantic arguments never resolve anything.
Do Khan's building work with the Earth grid? NO
Are some Platonic solids sacred? YES -
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Re: The hexagram...
Fri, May 30, 2008 - 7:18 PMWell, I do think Kahn was a bit of a Rationalist, no soft empiricism to open up to nature... Too perfect some say, but...
I think you wil agree, sacred nature is not only natural... As you point out as well.
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Re: The hexagram...
Sun, May 25, 2008 - 7:00 AMastral alignments are always getting tangled...
I'm a building's corner... I live when I feel the pad of feet, when the wind lift's my roof.. I strain my woods, to twist and follow the sun... But my skin and leaves have left me. Bladed away by the carpenter's trade.
Pinning me together nails of metal, itch, and pull... but I lived 300 years before they, pulled from iron happy ore, crystalized in wailing heat, hammer'd from pulls... I still sit, toe'nailed, 16 penny pinched, buckling in wind, breathing with heat, and air, and moisture...
Some call me Straight?
Plumb?
Square?
Who?
Don't they see my arching backs?
Don't they feel my every pull to their push?
I feel the warbling thing they call the Earth's center... My old mother, still my mother (with termite, and time, doth recover) move from left to right, as my cold lover Moon swings around... Watching his old mantle, the coat of many forest, grow green while I sweat insulated.
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